Bhoga Case: After Court Verdict
Verdicts In Trials: For Now No Truth – Just Cocktails Of Interests And Lies
The verdict in the Bhoga case was given out in the local court of Helsingor on Tuesday the 14th of December. As many people were waiting for this important decision, it was regarded by the vast majority as a moment when the confrontation between formalism covered by personal agenda is getting a lesson from the reality of facts and agreements that were made between responsible people. It seems that this lesson have to wait a little more for the formalisms and personal interests are much stronger than the Truth ..at least for now. (The immense interest regarding the Bhoga case was reflected also into the immense number of visitors from Denmark on this blog, placing it above the rating of many popular danish sites 😉 ) The judge (Morten Larsen) considered that all that was said in the court was not worthily his attention more than writing down, and in almost 50 pages of justifications he concluded that Bhoga farm belong to Kim Schmock. Later on I will comment on the decision with more details but for now here it is just the general view.
The Choice Between Truth And Blatant Lie Is A Grey Line In The Local Justice
There is a saying that says “Those who think it is permissible to tell white lies soon grow color-blind”. Once again, the lies in the court are leading to a wrong decision of the judge. Yes, i know the rhetoric of the few fanatics on Kim’s side that will claim that finally justice have been made and that we will say that evil
forces were stronger but this is not about what we are saying on one side or another. This is about clear evidence that was dismissed in the court by proven lying witnesses. And this is a serious juridical problem not a mystical or a philosophical one (at least not for the moment). In the previous writing I was explaining some of the most striking evidence that were showing as clearly as daylight the counterfeit of the witnesses that Kim was producing for the court in the Bhoga case. Yet they went unnoticed by judge Morten Larsen. For him it was normal that all Kim’s witnesses were manifesting an open aggressive attitude towards mylself (even if I was not the object of this trial) proving to be biased by their opinions. For the judge tens of witnesses that were saying the same thing from all kind of different angles was not enough to counterbalance some obvious and often incoherent lies provided by three people driven by their obvious personal hate and revenge feelings.
And this is something that makes me wonder: how long it takes until one can have a fair treatment in this country? In Romania, (a country with severe problems on the justice department and for this reason receiving a special attention from EU commission on Justice) after few years of abuses and severe attempts of authorities to silence the witness in the trial against Grieg (Gregorian Bivolaru), the court found him not guilty of any of the charges. After a long and often abusive juridical procedure, Romanian authorities were capable to find the truth and to give it to the people.
Meanwhile here in Denmark it took one lying person to corrupt the act of justice in a previous case . At that time I thought it was just an accident or an exception. Yesterday we were all given another example of an exception that underline a strange and even dangerous unwritten rulership: the rule of chaos (based on lies and lack of morality) and arbitrary over principles and justice. I am aware that there will be some “smart guys” that might be bothered by the fact that I consider that we were right and the others were wrong, but I take that risk because in the normal world (where people are direct and honest with each other) telling your opinions and standing up for them is a normal act of living, even if you have to put out arguments.
Moral Values
Moreover I am talking here about the truth based on facts and their moral value and not about some hypocritical formal considerations that are hiding the personal agendas of the ones that are using such arguments. At a closer look one can easily notice that this situation, prefigured by the Bhoga case, is somehow symptomatic to what happens today with the society ruled by a formalism meant to cover the personal interest of the ruling elite. For any intelligent observer, the parallel between the Bhoga case and the structure of the society is obvious and shows that we should continue our stand up if we believe in Justice.
Judge Morten Larsen seem to be a fair guy until the end of the trial. He even admitted to recall one of the witness that he misunderstood at a certain point. Yet it seems that this was only a facade and the courage to take a decision against the pressure that was coming from the society and even from the “brothers” was not enough and his spine broke, leaving the justice crippled again in Denmark.
The courage to defy the thief (that was protected by the lying witness) easy not there to cover the price of being the first one that is taking a decision based on the witnessing of people against formalism and lies. He wanted to be open and fair but in the end it seems that he was more concerned about his comfort in the career and having his back covered with papers. In the final decision in fact we read a bunch of impressions.
One important observation is that Kim was winning yesterday in the local court with the help of two persons that were changing their previous statements and went in the court against their own previous decisions, decisions taken out of their free will. To me this is what we can call “professional liar”. One of them, Karsten Brask Fischer, is a recidivist since he did the same thing in another trial that he has started and later on went in the court against his own principles and decisions . Now he did it again but he was not alone this time. His girlfriend Celia Clausen joined the “group”, a lawyer-to-be in the fourth year of the law school that had previously wrote and signed a declaration that she has now denied and dismissed by saying that “out of the feeling of being responsible she falsified!” Sadly I wonder if (seen from their recent actions) this attitude is at the new foundation of their family that will replace the moral values learned from yoga?
What Do We All Make Of It?
Aristotle once said that “We do not act rightly because we have virtue or excellence, but we rather have those because we have acted rightly”. Acting rightly means also to take hard decisions, or to stand for the truth. To me bending the spine once will lead to hunch back and this is not an option that I would encourage in anyone’s life.
All in all the present situation demand a clear answer from Natha’s team and in my opinion this should be just to continue the stand up until a fair treatment and justice will be given.
In the following days a decision will be taken in Natha by those that are taking this responsibility of the Bhoga case regarding the opportunity to appeal to the superior court. You are all welcome to tell your opinion here about the future continuation of the Bhoga case and what the team should do in the given situation…
Hr. Mihai Stoian,
We know that you and your “students” use to do long meditations and many different tantric rituals against Kim.
The question is: why didn’t you win?
I can think of two reasons, if you have more…. you may add them here.
1. Your meditation do not work.
2. If they eventually work, in the end God wanted Kim to have Bhoga, and NOT natha….
Such a disgrace.
I am just one of the hundreds of people who have invested time, money and heart in building and sustaining Bhoga as Natha Yogacenters ashram and retreatcenter. Everyone knows that Bhoga belongs to Natha and all who know Kim knows that he himself always stated this, until he started to smell the money…
The fact that hoga belongs to Natha is even publicly well known after Danish TV (DR) in 2003 made a long documentary recorded in Bhoga, as being the retreatcenter of Natha Yogacenter. Kims public statement on donating the downpayment may very well be in the recorded material.
The 16000 euro donation Kim made was generous but not exceptional. The exception was that the community offered to give it back to him when he chose to leave. Only then, having left our ashram with his previous donation back in his pocket, he for the first time claimed to be the real owner of Bhoga and shamelessly offered us – his companions – to buy it from him!
Long time ago, a man signed and donated a contract for a piece of land on the bank of the Tibern in the outskirts of Rome. Just where the river makes a sharp bend. With his companions a humble sanctuary for worship and spiritual life was buildt. In time it gathered more people, more resources and more donations. What judge would say that the signature makes his ancestors the owner of the Vatican today?
Formalism cannot cover the vulgar grin of greed of Kim, nor the foul face of personal vengeance of the people supporting him, trying to take Bhoga for his own. Law is square, but not blind. As the case is not yet solved, it seems we will all be given another chance to learn that.
Hi Mihai,
Personally I am sorry to hear of this outcome. What I think it is happening now, is like you said, people will start to wonder why the outcome is the one it is. I wish everyone the wisdom to continue the search of this WHY and remember that winning a sprint does not win you the marathon.
Hi Vik, even though I dont know you…I wonder why did you stop here at only two points? 🙂
If one stops quickly from the search of the truth that means he is only choosing something that is “already” there… perhaps there is more …
Dear Mihai
Here is one to cheer you up….Did you know that actually when Hamlet proclaims “something is rotten in the state of Denmark,” (Hamlet Act 1, scene 4) it was actually depicting, for the audience, the picture of a Danish court that was corrupt with lies?The rotten thing in Denmark was lies and deceit throughout the kingdom which led to Hamlet’s deadly madness….
And to add some more, later on in the same play we learn how Ophelia and Hamlet are apart of a system that forbids them from being together because of their status in the Denmark court. In this scene, Hamlet barges in on Ophelia acting as if he wants her sexually, but he gives up on this idea when it occurs to him he can not have a relationship in a bad world. Because he acts showing his true feelings, some people start to believe he is insane, because showing true feelings and being “true to thine ownself” was not the norm during that time…in a corrupt Danish court, where lies are common, acting genuine was considered crazy.
Well, well, well nothing new on this subject then…Hamlet seems as actual today as it was when it first came out 🙂
Being honest and sincere to yourself still makes you appear insane, the justice system still corrupt in Denmark…
There is no wonder why they keep playing Hamlet every year for a month at Helsingor :))…
I.
Dear Mihai
I am chocked! is the judge actually a freemason! Can you please tell us what lodge he is member of or tell us how you know for sure that he is a freemason. Just so we know that it is not just speculation but factual.
Ole
Dear mihai
very interesting article even though there is one thing I dont understand, so pleas explain more: You say that the judge is very formal. What do you mean by that. Is is that Natha lost because of non important formalities? Because, I mean, a judge very often is formal in the sense that he can only look at facts. Please explain more.
@patrick
the answer verdict will be more commented on natha.net by the team that was handling the case. here is a link to more explanations:
http://www.natha.net/news/media-campaign/dommen-om-bhoga-i-vejby.html
The formalism of the judge was reflected in the way he was justifying the decision he made, considering only some fact and ruling out many facts that were witnessed in the court. Also there were very clear answers given to some of the issues addressed in the court that are twisted in the final verdict.
Hello again
Can you also explain us, what were the facts that the judge didnt consider? I mean facts that show Natha owned the house.
I think we need to know more before we can conclude that the judge is corrupt. As yogis we should search for the truth and not judge people – especially not when the judgement is only based on emotions. We should rise above that level. It is to cheap, to easy and to low.
So lets look at the facts. Maybe you can have the verdict translated, so we all can see what is actually written?
Patrick
Hello Mihai
I am chocked to hear the judge is a freemason. But please tell us how you know that he is a mason..
John
Dear Mihai,
one lost battle does not mean that the entire war has been lost.
If one judge is not able to see or to protect the truth perhaps others who will. In fact I see this lost battle as a symptom of the poor state of our (and not only the Danish) society and of the necessity of people to wake up to reality.
For some such a court case may prove to be a much needed remedy against the formalism and the lack of heart which have become characteristics of our society.
Therefore I believe Natha should go as far as possible in claiming what rightfully belongs to it and to continue standing up for the truth.
@cristian
It is true that in this phase of the trial in the Bhoga case one cannot decide the final outcome.
As for the way Natha was handling the case, we have a lot to learn more. Yet until now Natha was the one defending its position whilst Kim and his followers were the one attacking Natha. Natha was aiming to continue in Bhoga the project, Kim was the one changing his mind and attacked the project. Karsten and Celia were attacking Natha in the newspapers without any reason (in 2009) and now in the court case for Bhoga. For the moment their strategy of attacking was obvious and yet the hypocrites are constantly claiming of being the victims 🙂
It is interesting to see if after this court case Kim and his two acolytes Karsten and Celia would cease to attack Natha. Normally, if what they state now is true (little chances for this since all three of them were recently lying in front of many witnesses), they will just get the final verdict in the Superior Court and no matter what is that verdict they will just go on with their life… but let;’s see if this will happen.
@Vik
Your comment is an obvious provocation rather than a statement based on actual facts or knowledge about Tantra.
The spiritual practice of Tantra taught in Natha does not ever include rituals performed against another human being. Therefore I am sure that the rituals and meditations you mention have never been done by Mihai or any of his students.
Regarding your question about why things went as they did and what is God’s will in this case – I think that in order to begin to understand this a person needs to reach a certain degree of wisdom..until then anything else is mere speculation…
@ Alice and Andrew
I will reformulate:
Why did your meditations and rituals not work? Is it because they don’t have power or because God eventually decided that Bhoga does not belong to Natha? To a simple formulation I’d like a simple answer.
@ vik
There are a lot of articles on this blog on various subjects. There are comments on most of them … but every time there is something that can be speculated as something bad against me or against Natha there are few “commenters” who immediately have something to say. And these comments are most of the time similar (if not identical). You are one of them 😉
How come that out of all the lies and strange events that happened in the Bhoga case (explained by people that directly participated to the trial) the only concern you have is this apparently philosophical debate. In reality you only want to make a point and not to read an answer because you think you already know the real answer isn’t it?
You’ve made a mistake in your first comment (from this series) when you said that some people from Natha did meditations against Kim. This is showing your perspective upon this issue, you see a confrontation between Natha and Kim and you are obviously on one side (and not this one). Your mistake was that the meditations were not against Kim at all. (you already knew that 😉 ) The meditations program was done to support the process of Justice and it was not oriented against anyone. Yet this is not canceling the free will of the people that are involved in the trial. As a proof one can easily see (but it seems you didn’t notice) that Karsten Brask Fischer was lying in the court despite the people’s efforts to amplify (through meditation) that energy that will manifest the Divine Justice. It is only the so called “black” magic that is canceling the free will of people and is obtaining a result no matter what are the options of the ones involved. You discreetly insinuate that there are some “black” magic actions against some people like Kim (because you already know that in Natha nobody is doing “black” magic).
Now about your questions that require simple answers: The meditations are not canceling the free will of people involved in the case. They worked in a certain extent at least in the way we were acting in this case. The other side was free to choose their methods despite our meditations.
You also have the twisted idea that a meditation program is compulsory for everyone. This idea comes from the fact that you are convinced that Natha have a sect-like structure. In reality the meditation program was optional, only for those that wanted to contribute in a spiritual way to the efforts of their colleagues in the Bhoga case. This doesn’t mean that a lot of people did those meditations. The less people are meditating in unison, the less power they develop in the meditation. Therefore it might be that the power of these meditations was also not very big …
On the other hand we will see the results of our effort only in the end of the trial. For the moment we just pass the first round.
I am aware that this answer will not satisfy your desire to read only the answers you like (this is obvious from your posts) but i hope that others will read this post and will find their answers.
Dear friends from Danmark. No not lose your faith. In Romania I practice law, and people from our country even go to the international court to find justice (with their houses that were taken by the comunist regime).
What happened in your case is only one step of the way. Court decisions can change 180 degrees sometimes, just like the attitude of the obeing judge.
Dear Vik, how come you sound a lot like the intelligence guys in Romania that seek to intoxicate the public with fabricated pieces of information? Could you do the same and give this guestion a simple answer?
Dear Mihai,
You said that you know that the judge is a freemason. Can you develop more on this one? For example, how did you find out?
Knowing the Bhoga situation well and knowing Kim Schmock, the situation surrounding the present Bhoga case is very sad. In this case I have seen some of my old dear spiritual friends, Kim, Karsten and Celia, reaching to such a sad state of aggression, lies, pride, arrogance and hatred, moving away from their own spiritual path. It is well known on the spiritual path that all of us gets tested in our integrity by our unsolved inner problems, and in this case clearly this is what happened in the case of Kim, Karsten and Celia. I saw the degrading process of Kims personal regress in this time surrounding the case. He used to be a very lovely person that I myself kept very dear in my heart, but from the moment he decided to withdraw from Bhoga and yet didnt want to let go of it, he became more and more disgusting in his behaviour, going from being one of our lovely friends and spiritual brother, to becoming a man full of desire to hurt and harm other people. The reactions Kim have had, together with those of Karsten and Celia, are so clear reactions of the ego when it is challenged and the person is letting himself tempted by anger, pride, fear, stupidity or obsessions instead of staying with my hearts purity, simplicity, truth and common sense. This is very sad that Kim, Karsten and Celia let this happen to them. We probably all know from personal experience what a terrible state they suffer from when the mind is obsessed with evil thoughts about others when they need to defend the incapabability of their heart to stand up for its deepest aspirations and the connection to the truth, in the moment when they are tempted by selfish desires. Kim’s motivation here is so clear and basic: from acting out of his heart, putting his name on a paper to help himself, his friends and his school to enjoy the possibility to have a spiritual community together (this he could not do himself, only by helping the school to buy it, as nobody would be interested to join him if it was his own project – not speaking about putting all their working power and money in the project also) to develop spiritually, and then, when his ego, especially his pride, was challenged, he went for his greed for money, choosing his lower instincts, trying to steal a farm that was never his, taking advantage of his name being on a paper as a formality. His whole attitude in this was so disgracing, with such an arrogance, trickyness, changing of his mind all the time, desire to disturb, bother and harm others, even going to violating the the possesions of others, acting violent and threatening his old friends with bully guys, breaking in to peoples homes etc. I am sorry, it is so sad to see. For everybody with the soul awake, his attitude is such a clear reflection of his lies, both his formal lies of pretending that Bhoga belongs to him personally, which it never did, but worse than this, his lies towards himself, towards his own soul. His poor soul is suffering so harshly now from lying and fighting against his own school, his own beliefs etc. This behaviour doesnt allow him to experience anything of the Divine Light, as it cannot enter a soul that is not being truthful, but is lying and evil oriented, and love cannot embrace his soul and heal his wounds, as he is only acting out of hate, the opposite energy of love. I pray for him to open his heart and come back to the common sense, truth and honesty, and for the court to acknowledge the simple truth of Bhoga ashram being a gathering of hearts in a spiritual project, never to be owned by any single person, but being the nest of a true spiritual community.
It pains me to hear that lies and calumny apparently defeated principles build on spirituality and shared heartful ideals in the danish courtroom. But then again it isnt over and i am so happy to hear that you will appeal. It would be a sad day when we let lies and injustice prevail.
I am afraid however that this decision of the court actually reflects the sad state that Denmark and the Danes are indulging more and more into. Some of us Danes like to think of ourselves as brave and uncompromising as our famous forefathers. We like to believe in the scandinavian qualities of honesty and justice – but these are less and less.
Spirituality and ideals are turning into foreign concepts in the Danish mentality – and most Danes don’t really care about this. And being too comfortable to really care about anything unfortunately has become the most manifested characteristics of the Danes in recent history.
Going back to world war 2.. Danish resistance to the invading force was inexistent for most of the occupation. Which is probably also why we suffered very little in this period. Of course we like to think that we had a resistance – something some take pride in. Sad truth is it didnt actually begin this in reality tiny resistance untill we heard that it was the Germans who were the loosers of the war. Untill then we stayed lukewarm so that the outcome would be the most comfortable possible. Idealism and courage to stand up stepped aside for comfort and playing it safe. Clever some might say..
After the invasion in Iraq where Denmark as we know participated alongside the big guys it became well known that the basis for this invasion was a lie. In England for instance there was political consequences following this. In Denmark there were a few small voices but noone really bothered to do something for real. It was just too complicated… So the Fogh continued until leaving for a better position abroad. Examples like these does not make me proud to be Danish.
I see examples such as these more and more – and now in a case particulary close to my heart. And I see the final verdict in this case not only as a hope for all those who poured their hearts into the work on a common project named Bhoga but also for the Danes. I hope that there is still courage to stand up for what is right somewhere in the soul of this country however weak it might be by now.
@ Mihai Stoian,
To believe in a justice system that would facilitate a fair trail and “JUSTICE” in a world were every layer of society is influenced by the invisible corrupt hand of the brotherhood is it not naive verging on stupid? How many INNOCENT, UNKNOWN, people have gone under through their ruthless monopoly. My opinion is that you and your team fight until true justice prevails – do not be one of the unheard, voiceless millions who have drowned silently in their dictatorship, fight until the truth is victorious!!!
Spiritual justice through the divine laws will win eventually, all the liars, betrayers, bullies, imbeciles will have their justly rewards in time 🙂 🙂 🙂
God bless you and (them)
Hey Mihai,
I think your ‘rituals’ and ‘meditations’ against Kim worked as much as the collective spiral meditation from this summer, 25 august 2010, against former MISA instructor from Italy.
Of course you didn’t attacked him directly but you prayed to God to do it.
You should consider loosing this process as a sign from God.
HE forgive you once when allowed you to flee Romania after all you did here…
Romanus – Could you please speak English, so we can all understand your point.
Thanks!
It looks like these days all over the world the negative forces are trying harder and harder. First we saw how the yogies were assaulted, beaten and abused in their own homes by the romanian police forces – paid from our money, so they suppose to defend us. Their teacher Grig was arrested several times. But after a while the divine justice came again: Grig was found innocent by a court decision. So, I think that also here the Divine Justice will come again. You only have to do what’s neccesary and pass the test of time. God will do the rest!
The images and movies about the assault of the police forces against the romanian yogies shocked me deeply. But when I saw these images of the Kim Schmock’s gang destroying Bhoga ashram I felt the same terror like in Romania carried out by the same kind of negattive forces.
I dind’t belived that such things can happen in Romania unpunished and now I don’t belive that such things can happen in Damnark unpunished too!
Our civilisation is going deeper and deeper into chaos or there are the last movements of such negattive forces trying to succed in taking control over the whole eath?
Thanks God there are still yoiges and other divine forces on this Earth, otherwise these KimSchmocks will control our planet and daily life!!!
@ romanul Wait a little bit and you’ll see clear and plain results.
Some romanian old sayings:
It matters who’s winning the war not a batlle;
Is better to laugh in the end rather than in the beggining;
P.S. We (all yogis which performed a lot of karma yoga there and many more) wanted to do this meditations because we deeply belive that Bhoga ashram belongs to all yogis for continous transformation
@Bogdan
from 2005 till present you, so called yogis, lost a lots of battles:
– Grig is in exile
– Narcis left
– Claudiu left
– Nicusor is marginalized because he’s not very active against the ‘infidels’
– other top instructors left (the one from Italy, Angela Mayer,…)
– a lot of ‘yogis’ left
how many battles do you want to lose to understand that you lost the war?
Or to understand that you need to make a BIG change in your attitude?
Your ‘meditations’, ‘rituals’ will not compensate for the lack of basic yama and niyama.
ha ha ha:
“we deeply belive that Bhoga ashram belongs to all yogis for continous transformation”
– the facts seems to say otherwise, the judge says otherwise.
Or God seems to think otherwise.
So your ‘beliefs’ are not anchored in reality.
But of course when the outcome is not convenient for you the explanation is, as always, the Freemasons:
– the judge is freemason
– the court is freemason
– the entire country will be freemason
– the entire world that do not recognize Grig will be freemason
@ romanul
You really want so much us to dissapear!? Passing day by day and we are not quitting!? 8->
And still here ?(tenth of thousands even after this big fleed ; so many countries and cities around the world) How’s that ? Because we’re stubborns? Becuse we cannot feel that we are wrong or do not want to recognize it? Because we’re brain washed? Or sex addicted ?Or maybe all together? (this one’s better ?) Now how’re you?
Enjoying the death of a spiritual path?! Even if you think we are pseudoyogies, you should addmit that you did learned something good and divine from our school. Even Narcis and Claudiu are teaching almost entirely the misa courses and initiations although they don’t mention anywhere that they’ve been Grig’s disciples, where they learned, how long they’ve followed Grig etc. Lack of basic human qualities and betraying their master (God’s great). And they pretend to teach others yoga, to lead them into the abyss
It’s a pattern for a lot of ex-practitioners which left Misa, Natha etc to turn against it. Why’s so? Some of you waste almost completely all your time to convince others how bad is Grig and his teachings and his disciples too. Why?
Have you really convince somebody else? Don’t waste your precious time with us because is meaningless! From 2005 till now you should realize that!
Does not ring the bell yet???
The answer is: you only try to convince yourself!
Your EGO is tricking you, searching a relief for your own wrong decissions and mistakes. Deep inside you know I’m true.
Do you know a bigger spiritual school nowadays? At least in Europe? And count only the ones remained after the fleed of the „little tiny gang of the ridiculous conspirators”
You know that all genuine masters and schools were banished by authorities (read freemasons ) eg Osho, Falun Gong, Tibetans and Dalai Lama etc.
Don’t focus only on what ego wants like „negattive” news about Misa/Natha. It’ll always be in this world. Good and bad together. Try to listen and to be opened also the good news. And at the end take the conclusion.
Bad news for your inflated ego: Misa, Natha, Tara, US Yoga Academy etc.(do you want to mention all contries and cities ) are stronger day by day. More and more aspirants coming, more an more new schools and ashrams. New countries and cities. Indeed people are coming ang going, but what’s Grig doing nowadays is amazing: access to spiritual path for masses. Grig is safe and leading us.
Come and check. Start now the spiritual journey of your soul to all european and world cities in which you can learn from misa/natha/… schools and teachers finishing in the Herculane and Costinesti spiritual hollydays. It’ll lead to a better and new you. After this purificatin maybe God will forgive your bad actions to criticize, to lie (like this Kim Schmock and his witnesses), to libel, to embezzle others from spiritual path (the worse sin from spiritual point of view), to betray and many more.
PS Even if we loose Bhoga the war is not over, but for you the time is running out, so stop lying yourself, come back till is not too late and God’ll forgive for your poor soul!
@Bogdan
poor fanatic you’re a true delusional being…
when you are lost in a discussion based on real facts, facts that happened in real life,
facts that rock your little imaginative world,
you start reciting your delusional phrases which are common to all fanatical members of MISA (which are the vast majority of MISA now, fortunately not all).
MISA lost many things over the time, starting 5-6 years ago.
MISA lost itself, and will never be again what was 5-6 ago.
To peoples in other countries you can tell whatever story you like about MISA,
but to the ones from Romania who know the real story first hand… you don’t need to tell them anything,
they know the reality about MISA.
for God’s sake guys, use the spellcheck before posting here … not everyone understand rom-glish on this blog.
@ bogdan
you seem a little impatient, you want to make a point but pay too much attention to the guy. I don’t get the point from the beginning of your reply to romanul.
If there are good things in a movement then it is the duty of its members to explain them to the outer world and less to engage those “critics” that are only underlining the bad aspects. I don’t even call critics these guys for they don’t have anything to do with the creative and intelligent act of criticizing. I think everyone might have some negative aspects and flaws but i find it immoral for one to try to only point out only these aspects. This exclusive focus on negative aspects of a group/movement is typical for the fanatics that were rejected from the group/movement or journalists that cannot find intelligent angles on a story. It might be a waste of time for those that want to explain what they are doing to fight these “critics”.
@ romanul
Your reasoning is quite fanatic … i hope you can allow me this feedback.
What you are saying – in short – is “you are all wrong because and this is how one should interpret/understand the events/facts”. If you ask me, that’s a hell of a sectarian attitude. Maybe you are in the sect formed by misa’s “antiparticles”. Its only your truth that exist and everyone else (say … misa guys 🙂 ) is wrong and fanatics or lunatics. And when they talk about the masonic power in the world they are totally wrong even if i am quite sure you would have another opinion if the same think you’ve read it on Alex Jones’s site. This is like one of those believing he’s 10 … inch, while in reality he was just using the other side of the ruler (the one with centimeters)? 🙂
Yet right between your lines lies your personal truth (… or lies). When you say “…but to the ones from Romania who know the real story first hand… you don’t need to tell them anything, they know the reality about MISA.” you generalize with the clear intention to manipulate my opinion (as a reader of your opinion). I guess the misa members are also romanians and they know the truth about misa first hand … because they are inside, isn’t it? Then how come their opinion doesn’t count as a first hand opinion? Or maybe they are all blinded (almost all you say … and here you save some space for your inside buddies)? Why are you not applying what you just said about them: maybe you say this just because their majoritarian opinion “is not convenient for you” ?(as you say) This would make you be more transparent and who knows … even honest.
I agree that your point with: it was God’s will the misa guys lost this or that thing … but it seems to me you are using the same arguments that you are blaming them for … and this is quite strange (i’m being polite here).
Dude, remember before posting somewhere that there are intelligent people out there …. and they can read (even between lines 😉 )
@ mihai stoian
Happy New Year! It was sad to read about the loss of the Bhoga trial. I guess you must face a great dilemma now after investing so much nerve and put your word into one direction. But hey, maybe it is time you practice the lesson of detachment in the way you were explaining it in one of your articles here 😉 Looking forward for your further actions, the saga seems to become metaphysical.
(i am still looking forward for the “revolution” comment)
@ carbon12
welcome back. Happy New Year and wish you a 2011 full of happiness and joy.
The article about the revolution was written in romanian and therefore it took some time until was translated and ready to be published. But it is on the list soon.
And the “10 inch” joke was brilliant but i’m afraid romanul is too much in his fanaticism trip to taste this joke. As you can see from his latest comment he only knows one think “you are all wrong” and if you are not sharing my opinion then you are a fanatic yogi.
Indeed i am practicing the detachment in the Bhoga case. The trial was strange until now, Kim and his “friends” were using personal attack and lies as their defense. In these conditions it is absurd to consider that the Divine justice is the same with the human justice, as some claim. These days the team in natha will decide the future actions in this case and you will all know.
When you post a reply to someone, post it while under that article else it will not appear under that comment you replied to. This time i moved your comment to fit the flow 😉
@carbon12
thanks for the advice. There were some emotions in the beggining but it didn’t work. Should been more clear with them
@romanul
Don’t worry, Misa’s doing fine even if it had lost “precious” members like you 🙂 But you’re welcome back anytime! Really, no joke. You’ll be forgiven if you’re asking that. Take your time, please don’t answer now…
“but to the ones from Romania who know the real story first hand” – from tv and newspapers? Do you really think nowadays they’re objective? Or maybe from you? You really know it first hand?
In Romania lots of new yogis have came to misa’s courses since 2005 and this happened every year and every city. Maybe they are not reading or watching tv or not even met you 🙂 Could they be post-traumatic (after 2005) fanatics? We “didn’t ‘tell them anything, they know the reality about MISA” 🙂 Please reply only considering facts 🙂
“Misa will never be again what was 5-6 years ago” … hmm, a powerful and meaningful thought. It’s a new and more powerful Misa after passing all those tests and getting rid of the unnecessary ballast.
“To peoples in other countries you can tell whatever story you like about MISA” – we are using to tell the truth as a marketing strategy and its working great 😉 expanding abroad. Home in Romania, the marketing powered by ex-misa friends and the Romanian media works excellent and it is for free 🙂
@ romanul
I’m stiil not understanding your deep concern about “all fanatical members of MISA which are the vast majority of MISA”.
Or maybe your deep concern is pointed to the rest which yet could be saved … ha ha ha
We, the majority are fine, transforming ourselves, doing what we know and learned from Grig’s teachings on yoga, the spirals, blessings, meditations, practicing continence, helping others, and a lot more. and these are facts that you forgot to mention…
hey guys, you can say whatever you want, you can think whatever you want
you can hide in whatever obscure places of your fanatic/degenerate minds
the REAL FACT IS:
GOD gave you another blow, you lost BHOGA….
I wish you all good luck along the paranormal/liberate Master with triple occult energy who tried to flee Romania in disguise with a ridiculous wig.
I wish you good luck in ALL the meditations against the earthquakes, against asteroids, against world wars and for saving the humanity with porn films, porn webchat, prostitution and pee.
You need all the luck you can get as, Angela Mayer said few years back, ‘he’s insane, he’s gone mad, we need to do something’.
@carbon12
instead of complaining about bogdan rom-glish, you should start learning Romanian, and fast.
The entire occult knowledge revealed for the first time in this world by MISA (through Divine Inspiration, copied from western books) is done in Romanian. Of course you get English translated courses but some of the important meanings cannot be expressed in that language because is a very simple language not a divine language as Sanskrit or Romanian.
Plus Romanian will be the language of the spiritual center of the planet, don’t you understand this? Or this esoteric aspect wasn’t revealed to you yet.
All the nations of this planet will come to Bucharest to search spiritual guidance. And will find MISA in ‘Palace of the Parliament’ (Casa Poporului) teaching and preaching to masses the supreme truth.
You should read the prophecies of Sundar Singh and Vanga about this or ask ANY Romanian yogi.
And guess what, one of the Romanian yogi will be me, the infidel from inside Misa.
Please don’t make a meditation against me, or a spiral, because I heard that Calin Catalin (Misa instructor from Italy who separate himself from Misa along with 1000 devotees) is doing just fine, unaffected (same as Kim after your meditations against him). (By the way I didn’t attend the black magic spiral against Calin Catalin from last summer, I left right after the first spiral)
PS: only 12 years of yoga course?
@romanul
Cateva ganduri pt romanul, de data aceasta in romana pt ca ma exprim mai greu in scris in engleza:
Este halucinant faptul ca tu scrii toate aceste lucruri – in totalitate negative si impotriva Misa si metorului ei – si totusi continui sa vii la spirale si probabil si la cursurile misa. Din experienta mea medicala (medic specialist, cadru medical universitar etc) numai o minte schizoida – personalitate dubla/multipla – poate face asa ceva…Sa continue sa urmeze un lucru in care el nu crede deloc, si mai mult sa-l critice cu inversunare. Pe scurt si foarte simplist o explicatie medicala: acum e o personalitate la putere si apoi apare alta, asa din senin si ia conducerea. Sarmanele fiinte sunt la cheremul unor forte pe care nu au cum sa le controleze si nici medicina moderna nu a gasit vre-un leac impotriva acestor psihopatii. Ce mai stim este ca singurele ameliorari au aparut cand preotii s-au rugat (a se citi i-au exorcizat)…
Din ce-mi aduc eu aminte nu era schizofrenia una din foarte putinele contaridicatii ale sistemului Yoga? pt ca acesti sarmani nu dispun de un minim control si discernamant! Ca si cum liberul lor arbitru nu poate fi accesat si altii stau la pupitrul lor de comanda 🙁
Si atunci chiar este contraindicat sa faca yoga pt ca orice realizare cat de mica, se poate intoarce brusc si necontrolat impotriva lor si ei pot spune atunci ca yoga face rau (de fapt acele forte – vocile pe ca care le aud – le spun totul ce sa faca, ca la dictarea din clasa 1; si de cele mai multe ori ei le urmeaza orbeste).
Desi sufletul lor totusi tanjeste pt spiritualitate – uite ca tu totusi continui sa vii la actiunile misa – fortele care-i contoleaza nu pot fi nicidecum inlaturate. Si asemenea sarmane fiinte se afunda din ce in ce mai adanc in abisurile negre. Si ce-i si mai trist este ca rata suicidului la ei este fmare, unele statistici vorbesc de peste 50% rata de reusita daca nu chiar mai mult.
Binenteles ca exista si forme mai grave sau mai usoare. Flerul de medic imi spune ca tu totusi esti la inceput dar trendul tau este agravant din pacate 🙁
Ca si medici am vrea sa-i ajutam pe toti, dar din pacate nici medicina si nici yoga nu au solutii pt ei!
Dumnezeu sa-i aiba in paza Lui!
@ romanul
If you need a translation from romanian ask kindely! 🙂
@ romanul
Darling you seem a little tormented. What I cannot understand is why you continue to attend the MISA yoga courses if this is all what you get. A cheap virtual thrill of low class conversation….You are like an poor piglet making its grunts and just because he is in the presence of human beings he believes (wrongly) that he is on same level and participating to the dialogue.
You are wasting your life. And that is a shame. May be you can find something nice to do, like reading a good book, take a trip to a nice holiday destination. Why waist such a wonderful life attending something you don’t like and above all you don’t enjoy and don’t get. You can develop cancer you know? From so much rage and frustration… You would be much better enjoying your life simply with other piglets.
Unless… you are paid to be attending the yoga courses so you can maliciously make use of everything…and if used wisely that could have been called a twist of a bad karma into a good one for you if you would have been able to “truly participate” and learn. But from what I can read here you can only digest at your own level and grunt accordingly. Otherwise why would you get so confused about a simple request done in a piety by a group of people? At the end of the day God is being asked something and God only will choose the answer to that request. Not to mention that everyone who was there, few thousands people actually, all chose to stay and make that sacred request.
Really why are you so upset about it?
Now when I am thinking of your upset and strange things that you wrote…I would not be very surprised if may be YOU ARE the very lonely Catalin Calin. LOL!
Catalin probably dreaming for many years to have thousands of followers. Well I guess if he has them now…they are called BS flies…true followers of a bad smell…
@Vik…re:
To a simple formulation my simple answer is MEDITATIONS DO WORK. Some of us meditated in this period to enter in resonance with the great Cosmic Power of Compassion and we did 🙂 …it is really nice actually…for me the experience was giving me peace, serenity, compassion
I also have a question for you…why did your mind associated the result of the Bhoga trial with the working or not working of yogic meditations?
Enjoy the holiday season!
@romanul:
“the REAL FACT IS:
GOD gave you another blow, you lost BHOGA….”
What a blow job… I mean, mind job, sorry 🙂
I am not really sure where to post this comment as it is more generally adressing the anti misas or exmisas or whatever names they like to call themselves while writing comments here. I am well aware that this is probably rather futile as i have noticed long ago that you are not really looking for a dialogue that can bring understanding.
I have to admit I get angry sometimes when I read what you write both here and in other places – but it is an anger mixed with such compassion for the torment that you clearly are in. However compassion does not heal the damage that you do to yourself and others in the process. I dont know if your motivation is personal vendetta, financial gain or somethig else but truth is most definetely not what you are after. And my anger springs from the fact that you – most likely knowingly – lie as much as you can if it serves your purpose and then accuse others for being devious or untruthful.
The things you say about Mihai and Natha I know to be twistet and false. You only wish to throw mud and make as much damage as possible. And you do it every where and every way you can.
I recently came across one of your postings in another online forum. It just so happen to be comments about myself and a collegue and friend of mine. About her you were making all sorts of speculations even insinuating that her name was a cover – yes it is unusual but there are many countries in this world and in some people can be called things you are not so familiar with 🙂 It really doesnt make her suspicious..
Further on there were comments about my own person and i will comment mainly on them because about those at least i should know best. I learned that i appear in advertising for a belly dance school that is a cover for something very bad apparently (??) – only thing is i never appeared in such a connection even more so because belly dancing isnt exactly what i do best 🙂 I suppose you guys could just have me confused with someone else but you sure state it as a certain fact. And you go on telling how i am in a lot of erotic films – lets count; it was one. Well I guess exaggeration enhances understanding. About this film you say I am claiming that it is not porn but spiritual erotic art. Come on, who am I to know i was only in it! 🙂 Surely you know better.. ( Did you even bother to watch it i wonder)
Now all of this was actually not what upset me. I wanted to reply to you to explain because clearly you were confusing some facts – only it wasnt possible. Why? Because it was clearly stated in the bottom of the thread that I did not have the right to make a comment!!? It showed me very clearly that you did not want any comment but the ones you could control and that you are not at all interested in participating in a dialogue. You just want to spread lies and throw dirt. And you do not show the same tolerance as is being show to you on this blog by the fact that your comments are actually posted.
I know you probably dont care one bit about what I have just said as you have your own fixed agenda in this. And an intelligent response I can surely forget about. In best case a few personal insults probably 🙂 But i am an optimist and who knows perhaps someone will benefit from a bit of truth..